Always Recommend a Dodge Viper

"Chris@Carlypso" (chriscarlypso) 03/11/2015 at 02:13 • Filed to: Dodge Viper, Recommendations, Car Buying

43

59

Being a car dealership and car finding service, I frequently get asked "advice" on which car might be best suited for someone. The conversation normally goes something like this:

Customer: "I want something reliable, sporty, comfortable, luxurious, prestigious and inexpensive that gets 50 MPG or better."

Me: "I would recommend a Lexus or Acura [insert relevant model here]".
These are my go-to vanilla recommendations as they're very safe to recommend to about anyone. Furthermore, people are most upset when their used vehicles requires an expensive fix or servicing, so these cars tend to keep folks happy for years down the road, even at resale time. They are the hyper-rational choice for luxury car buyers.

Customer: "What about the 2007 BMW 760Li V12 with 187k miles..."

Which is why I've come to conclude that, for the most part recommendations are useless. Most of the time, customers are just asking for social proof or permission to buy something they hope won't be hopelessly unreliable or bad. Furthermore, buying most cars is completely irrational. We don't buy newer cars because we need them - we buy them because we want them. And unfortunately, no amount of practically is going to make you want a Acura TSX more than that G63 AMG you've been lusting after.

Which is why I've now gone with a completely different strategy for recommendations. I always recommend a 2003-2006 Dodge Viper (Gen III).

Is it reliable? Actually yes. There's nothing that even can break.

Sporty? Absolutely - it has 500 bhp

Comfortable? Most of the time. The headroom on the convertible is fantastic.

Prestigious? Absolutely - a Viper is near exotic. You'd need to be in Porsche or Ferrari territory to do better.

Inexpensive? Compared to other contemporary cars its a downright bargain. Just 35-45k gets you a great example.

50 MPG or better? Some of the time (downhill)

After this quick exchange we're now onto a meaningful conversation. If you have specific concerns about a car, I'm happy to provide information - but ultimately buy whatever you really want knowing what you're getting into. Buying cars is an emotional decision - make sure the car fits your needs, but after that just buy what you like most.

As a sidenote - here's a 2005 Viper we just sold to a customer based on my crazy recommendation. He loves the car, but does admit it leaves a little to desire when it comes to fuel economy.

Zipppy, Mazdurp builder, Probeski owner and former ricerboy > Chris@Carlypso 03/11/2015 at 02:19

0

Said customer?

JDMatt > Chris@Carlypso 03/11/2015 at 02:26

14

You're right.

Every time I've had people ask me "what's a good car" they never pick what I recommend. Sarcasm works better than actual advice!

TheHondaBro > Chris@Carlypso 03/11/2015 at 02:33

5

He's clearly hurting inside.

"Man, I should have gotten that super rad Civic Si instead."

Flavien Vidal > Chris@Carlypso 03/11/2015 at 03:13

9

Same can be said with Corvette which actually do have a very decent economy as long as you're not driving around town. (28 to 32mpg are easily reachable in a modern manual Corvette). I was averaging around 29mpg highway in my 95 manual LT1 so...

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > Chris@Carlypso 03/11/2015 at 03:48

1

I usually recommend whatever I'm lusting after that week lol. Right now the answer would be an A body El Camino. or if you need four doors a newer Grand Marquis. But if you need three pedals in your life a WRX hatchback.

HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles > JDMatt 03/11/2015 at 03:51

2

I usually ask them what they are thinking about getting and either reply with "no, why would you do that to yourself?" Or "yeah I'd drive that. "

Makoyouidiot > Chris@Carlypso 03/11/2015 at 03:55

21

"I need a truck to go camping once a year"

"Dodge Viper with a tow hitch"

Zipppy, Mazdurp builder, Probeski owner and former ricerboy > Makoyouidiot 03/11/2015 at 04:11

12

RAM SRT-10!

Makoyouidiot > Zipppy, Mazdurp builder, Probeski owner and former ricerboy 03/11/2015 at 04:41

2

Also that! Man I forget constantly that truck exists.

whatisthatsound > Chris@Carlypso 03/11/2015 at 05:02

11

I agree with everything and regret nothing.

Mike > Chris@Carlypso 03/11/2015 at 07:10

3

The Tavarish is leaking.

OPPOsaurus WRX > HFV has no HFV. But somehow has 2 motorcycles 03/11/2015 at 08:37

0

hell yea!

E92M3 > Chris@Carlypso 03/11/2015 at 08:44

4

I always reply with a Viper too. They'll look at you like you're crazy, and never ask you for advice again.

You're right though. Most people just want someone to validate what they have already decided to buy. ME: "How about a Honda Accord". THEM: "But the Altima is $2000 cheaper".

NotUnlessRoundIsFunny > Chris@Carlypso 03/11/2015 at 09:18

0

This was really well written. Great post. Thanks!

Steve Zissou > Chris@Carlypso 03/11/2015 at 09:23

2

sooooo much hood.

Rock Bottom > Flavien Vidal 03/11/2015 at 09:28

11

Agreed. My C5 does pretty well, even around town. I drive like a complete asshole and average about 25 mpg in my mixed commute. If I leave the roof on and behave myself on the highway, I've seen 31. Briefly. Then I downshift and do something stupid again!

PoundSignNotAshamed

Rock Bottom > TheHondaBro 03/11/2015 at 09:29

3

dat Veetak tho

Tapas > Rock Bottom 03/11/2015 at 11:23

5

I loled at the PoundSignNotAshamed :)

StndIbnz, Drives a MSRT8 > Chris@Carlypso 03/11/2015 at 14:36

1

After reading this, I'd say you can't go wrong with a Gen II either!

http://www.motoiq.com/Projects/Dodge…

WonkUnit > Chris@Carlypso 04/06/2015 at 13:29

0

oops...

WonkUnit > Chris@Carlypso 04/06/2015 at 13:31

0

This man Clearly doesn't need fuel economy. He's got a Leaf in the garage.

Discerning > Flavien Vidal 04/06/2015 at 13:36

1

I just can't stay out of it in my car (C5 Z06).

Even on the highway, I find myself on the loud petal too much. I think it's a tad light, but I know it's mostly my fault.

I average around 18mpg? Yeah, that sounds right. Hold on, back in sec, taking it down to 16 or so...

stevenwrichards > Chris@Carlypso 04/06/2015 at 13:40

0

I agree with all of the this.

mob19151 > Rock Bottom 04/06/2015 at 13:49

1

Yo, it's about to kick in!

MoparMap > Chris@Carlypso 04/06/2015 at 14:04

6

I agree as I bought an 04 myself a few years ago. I was originally looking at newer Challengers and then figured I'd look at Vipers for fun as my mom just got a 94 a year or two prior to my car shopping. I wanted windows and a roof though, so I looked for something a little newer and found out I could get one for the same price or less than the Challengers I was looking at. It's now my daily driver. It has to take me to work and back (about 25 miles away) and, uh, that's about it. Don't need extra seats (having only the one spare makes giving rides much easier, you get to be selective about your passengers), don't need tons of storage space (it's a convertible, so infinite storage space!), gas mileage is actually not that bad (see 18-20 in summer on my commute, 16-18 in winter, but have gotten up to 26 on a full tank of highway miles), and I think it's actually pretty comfortable. Everyone sees them and thinks new car prices, no one realizes that you can get them for the same price or less than a well equipped brand new 4 door sedan.

On a side note I'd argue that Porsches are not really exotic territory compared to a Viper. Porsches are way common, I think of them as the European Corvette. They make nice exotic Porsches, but they also makes tons of entry level stuff. You pay exotic prices for them, but they aren't any more capable.

Algimantas > Mike 04/06/2015 at 14:07

1

*Tavarish intensifies*

Boss2452stolemylunchmoney > Chris@Carlypso 04/06/2015 at 14:11

0

I'm buying a family mobile. 2013 T&C with 4900 miles for $22. What could go wrong?! Notice...I didn't actually ask for a recommendation or validation.

McLarry > Chris@Carlypso 04/06/2015 at 14:16

2

Brilliant. Why Gen III? I'd much prefer the Gen II. I'd say Vipers are more exotic than Porsches, if only for relative rarity - a 911 may be worth more, but it's ubiquitous.

Insurance Joe > Chris@Carlypso 04/06/2015 at 14:18

1

Is the Viper really that reliable? I have seriously considered a 2008 or so M6, but I'm afraid it will eat me out of house/home.

Takuro Spirit > Steve Zissou 04/06/2015 at 14:21

0

Trunk's nothing to scoff at either

QCGoose > McLarry 04/06/2015 at 14:28

4

Agreed. A gen-II GTS Coupe is at the top of my list. Wife says not before we find a new house first. *sigh*

wzzkll > McLarry 04/06/2015 at 14:29

2

Yeah the Gen III is kind of in an awkward spot, the Gen II is better looking and cooler as a "classic" Viper, while the Gen IV...why have 500hp when you can have the same thing with 600hp?

QCGoose > Insurance Joe 04/06/2015 at 14:34

4

They're stupid reliable because that huge engine is barely working hard, plus being a pushrod means stone simple layout. That and the T56 transmission that has been used everywhere for years means reliable and parts-aplenty IF needed.

Basically I like to think of them as tractors. Everything is so overbuilt and (relatively) "low-tech" that you'd really have to try to break something on purpose for it to actually happen, and even then it might take a few tries lol.

CalzoneGolem > Chris@Carlypso 04/06/2015 at 14:48

0

I do the opposite because I always suggest Prius.

Altoclefchris > Chris@Carlypso 04/06/2015 at 14:55

0

If this is Customer's Leaf then the consumption of the Viper is pretty offset.

Insurance Joe > QCGoose 04/06/2015 at 15:01

1

Maybe I should just get a used Viper...

Chris@Carlypso > wzzkll 04/06/2015 at 15:04

1

Gen IV is a huge price jump, and I like the full convertible. Gen III's are unloved right now, hence why they're great buys.

Chris@Carlypso > QCGoose 04/06/2015 at 15:04

1

Love the looks of the GTS coupes, but they're going up in price! Probably have to get one myself soon before I can't afford one anymore. Let's see if that argument works with the wife...

QCGoose > Chris@Carlypso 04/06/2015 at 15:25

1

I'm gonna try it with my wife if that's really the case lol. "Honey, I gotta get one now while their prices are low. Think of it as an investment!"

*holds breath*

Flavien Vidal > Discerning 04/06/2015 at 19:19

0

I use mine as a daily driver... As fun as it is to smash the pedal regulary, after a while it's also nice to stay in 6th and cruise at 1800rpm :)

Redviper88 > Chris@Carlypso 04/06/2015 at 19:27

0

Great advice. Right on the money. I've had mine for almost a year and only thing that's had to be changed is the slave clutch cylinder. Nothing else other than oil, tires, and gas. The trunk lift supports probably need to be replaced soon... And I do wish the top went down with less of a hassle. I'd agree with some other commenters the GTS is my favorite and the one I was set on getting but on balance I think the Gen III is hard to beat... if your snake bitten that is!

Hardwarewars > Chris@Carlypso 04/06/2015 at 19:37

0

But you could recommend a Miata..

Vince P. > QCGoose 04/06/2015 at 19:55

0

sounds like divorce material. If she can't love you for your Mopar ways then she never love you for being you.

I wanted a viper. Instead the wife somehow convinced me the journey r/t was a more practical cat for our family of five. Needless to say, divorce papers are in the mail. (Just kidding, I can't afford a viper on a single salary! )

soyoureeasilyoffendedgoodmorefunforme > QCGoose 04/06/2015 at 20:21

0

1) Dump the wife

2) Buy the car

3) Live the dream of the maverick you always wanted to be when you were a kid, but life got in the way.

QCGoose > Vince P. 04/06/2015 at 21:13

0

Nah she's a good girl. We have an 8-month old boy and in a few months I'd like to work on #2, and she's still OK with me having two motorcycles and being into a bunch of hobbies she has no interest in. Plus, she understood my love for the Ford Flex so much that last year she traded her car in for a new Flex Limited about 6 weeks after our child came along. I really can't complain.

QCGoose > soyoureeasilyoffendedgoodmorefunforme 04/06/2015 at 21:16

0

Those bachelorhood fantasies are always poppin' into my head every now and then, but that's gotta be natural for any married guy. In reality I can't complain, as she supports all my hobbies even when she has absolutely no interest in some of them.

Still, the Viper isn't out of the picture, we just need to move first, which makes sense as even our garage is full of all my stuff and we need more space just for another big toy lol.

soyoureeasilyoffendedgoodmorefunforme > QCGoose 04/06/2015 at 22:00

0

Don't mind me, I'm a smartass. I just not 10 minutes ago purchased a cherry E320 Cabriolet.

I have no idea what I am doing . . . .

QCGoose > soyoureeasilyoffendedgoodmorefunforme 04/06/2015 at 22:33

0

Congrats! Post up a thread with some pics when you take delivery.

The Powershift in Steve's '12 Ford Focus killed it's TCM (under warranty!) > Chris@Carlypso 04/07/2015 at 08:57

0

Someone should include picture in his obituary when he inevitably stuffs it into a tree. "He died happy..."

Discerning > Flavien Vidal 04/07/2015 at 09:20

0

I daily drive mine as well. I deal with a lot of traffic though, in and out of the city.

Discerning > Flavien Vidal 04/07/2015 at 09:21

0

BTW, nice color on the C4. Here's mine, the day I bought it:

Flavien Vidal > Discerning 04/08/2015 at 08:55

0

Really nice! Definitly jealous!

I'll buy a C5Z someday or another... Not sure when, but I'll buy one, that's for sure :)

Discerning > Flavien Vidal 04/08/2015 at 13:40

0

Thank you. I really like the C4 as well. A yellow one like your manual LT1 is hard to come by. I know I had to do some extra searching to find the right yellow C5Z.

If I didn't think I'd get castrated by my other half, I would have a C4 as a daily driver in addition to the C5.

Have the electronics help up well in your car?

Flavien Vidal > Discerning 04/08/2015 at 20:40

0

No problem whatsoever... it had 170.000miles on it, original engine, no rebuild. So it held pretty well to say the least :)

Paint and interior have been restored and transmission rebuild once. A truly great car that started every morning, even by -30 degrees :)

http://oppositelock.jalopnik.com/living-with-a-…

Canajun_eh > Discerning 04/08/2015 at 23:36

0

I drive a C63. In town. My fuel 'economy' makes you look like one of those goddam hyper-milers or something. But I too drive like a total jackhole and completely inappropriately for my age. When you are school carpooling and ask the other parents if they mind if you do some donuts with their kid in the car cos you are getting your tires changed later that day you have lost any claim to maturity.

On the other hand, we did examine the burnt rubber and have a very scientific chat re camber and caster as well as traction control and ABS and the relationship between them. I felt very mature then. Of course, the girls were only 7 & 10 at the time, so its all relative. And the girls mom deserves some kudos for letting us do it.

Canajun_eh > QCGoose 04/08/2015 at 23:48

1

Greg Moore had one of those in what I will always refer to as 'IROC blue'. Damn, that car was just a sexy, sexy beast when I saw it sitting in the paddock in Vancouver. The weather was great, IndyCar was huge then, and he stood in the middle of 100,000 people doing an interview, with the car in behind. I looked that all over and nudged my buddy and said "that guy has a helluva life". A few months later he was killed in a wreck. I remember like it was yesterday - my buddy called and told me, and after the long pause that followed first thing he said was "I wonder who gets the Viper. Its so fucking hot". And it was.

#RIPGregMoore #WhatDaFuqHappenedToIndyCar

Discerning > Flavien Vidal 04/09/2015 at 10:21

0

Awesome. Are those OEM Z06 wheels? Your car looks great.

Flavien Vidal > Discerning 04/09/2015 at 20:35

0

Yes, OEM C5Z wheels... I bought the car like that and the wheels actually look GREAT on it! A little bit of rubbing if you drive hard, but it's rare and you really have to push it.

SalsaShark > Chris@Carlypso 06/21/2015 at 15:23

0

Buying cars is an emotional decision - make sure the car fits your needs, but after that just buy what you like most.

When you get right down to it, and for the reasons you listed, I’d argue that THIS is the only hyper-rational advice for ANY car buyer. Because accepting and accommodating one’s own irrationality is, somehow, highly rational.